I started listening to Glenn Beck a couple of years ago and have to admit I was quite drawn to his rapid-fire style of conservative commentary. His blend of humor and hard-hitting observations about the state of politics seemed refreshing in comparison to stale and slanted network news drivel. About a year ago Glenn became the host of a televised version of the Glenn Beck Show on CNN Headline News. Apparently the show is doing okay because the secularists running that network have not given him the boot yet. Not long ago I learned that Glenn practices Mormonism within the LDS religion. The hair stood at attention on my neck but I pushed that personal prejudice aside because after all President Reagan confided with the Mormons on his staff didn't he?During last night's show, Glenn began his monologue in an overly melancholy state and seemed consumed with teary-eyed emotion when discussing Al Sharpton's appearance on the program. Beck informed the audience that Sharpton slighted Mormons everywhere by inferring that Mormons and maybe even Presidential candidate Mitt Romney practiced intolerance and bigotry towards African-Americans seeking to establish relevancy within Utah's favorite religion. Glenn Beck subsequently proceeded to cross the line of known historical truths. Glenn informed his television audience that he was a Christian and certainly not a bigot. Glenn, I believe you are not a bigot. Discussing bigotry with Al Sharpton is like fighting the war on drugs with Robert Downey, Jr. as the head of the DEA.
Neither Sharpton nor Jesse Jackson possess the character or intestinal fortitude to offer humble apologies to the Duke University rape suspects or condemn the moral inadequacy of their accuser. Those sanctioned racists absolutely crucified Don Imus but apparently the coin owns only one shiny side. More troubling than the obvious racial double standard surrounding Sharpton like a hail cloud is Glenn Beck's reference to Christianity and Mormonism. Glenn like many others in his "faith base" refuses to accept that the coupling of those terms defines impossibility. Christianity and Mormonism are mutually exclusive terms.
Here's the real story Glenn. You can practice whatever religion you wish as guaranteed in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. You can practice that religion in peace and privacy or among a host of others as guaranteed in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. What you cannot do is insult the intellectual integrity of Christians everywhere by implying that Mormonism and Christianity share the same philosophical tenets.
Mormons believe the Bible is flawed and subject to interpretation from modern day prophets. Christians believe the Bible is the sacred and final word and believe the attempt to intertwine modern texts like the Book of Mormon constitutes nothing short of blaspheme. Mormons believe in a multitude of celestial kingdoms and not only will Mormons sit at the right hand of God but become exalted Gods themselves after a lifetime of performing self-meriting works on Earth. Christians believe in salvation through a baptismal in faith and humbling oneself before the Lord on Earth and in Heaven as a servant and not an equal. Mormons believe Joseph Smith had the "book" divinely revealed to him in the hills in 1829. Christians believe Smith little more than a slick talking used car salesman with a penchant for the company of many women. The Mormons successfully changed their own doctrine more than 150 times since banning plural marriage in the late 1800's. The ban exists because of political pressures and not because of religious belief or the adherence to a Christian moral code.
I could go on and on but won't because if Glenn read this and is truly a practicing Mormon, the same taught response sets in. Deny, label the writer as anti-Mormon, and let the apologists for the religion begin a campaign of rebuttal and refutation. At all costs do not examine the critics and their contentions. For God's sake, don't read what Mormonism's opponents write even if the study of such opposition sheds factual light on the dogma being forced into you on those long Sundays.
Here are some topics of interest for those that follow these issues. The divine "secret" writings of Abraham supposedly possessed by Smith written on ancient Egyptian papyrus simply stands as fraudulent. An interpretation revealed nothing more than Egyptian funerary instructions on the "sacred" parchment. Smith found the papyrus when he bought an Egyptian mummy from a traveling sideshow or circus act. The Mormon texts fail to meet any Christian standards in relation to defining the text as authentic during the period of Apostolic authorship. It is believed by many Christians that the attempt to supersede the Bible with the works of Smith parallel what Catholics call heresy. The Bible is pretty clear about "turning away" from the teachings of Christ as revealed by the apostles in the New Testament. There is no doubt in my mind or the minds of many scholars that Smith's divine revelations as professed in Mormon texts were simply based on his own life and embellished much like a good novelist does. The religion simply bears no semblance to Christianity other than the bits and morsels included to spearhead the religion's recruiting drives.
Of all people, Glenn knows the damage caused by statements like "I'm a Christian." Glenn you are an admitted Mormon so accept it on its own merit and do not dishonor the Holy Bible by referencing Christianity and Mormonism in the same breath. You rail against partisan bickering on Capitol hill and the damage done by disguising truth and progress under a veil of political correctness. Silly Al Sharpton takes a poke at Mormonism and Mitt Romney and the apparent latent dose of political correctness hiding in you spills forth for all to see. Maybe that is a learned and endorsed response to attacks on Mormonism. You can profess to adhere to Mormonism all you want with or without the public emotion and chagrin. You may want to get used to hearing a few candid and plausible refutations from those in the broader Christian community that label the Mormon religion as false and intellectually debilitating. I patiently await the expected barrage from the rabid and misguided attack mongers.
www.glennbeck.com
38 comments:
Amen brother!! Can't get more real or true than that. When they meet their maker they will all be sticking their foots in their mouths. Love you.
I completely agree. I'm now praying that Glenn will actually examine mormonism against Christianity, see that mormonism is an unchristian cult and come to his senses. Anything else and he's just working for the enemy.
Mormons DO NOT believe that the Bible is flawed. It is the holy word of God and there to draw men to Christ - this is a principle that Mormon children memorize begining at the age of three. Any other holy writing that we use was given to us to be another witness of the truths that are in the Bible.
Please don't be so judgemental of something that you've only briefly looked into.
mt mormon if you don't believe the Bible is flawed then you should know better than to believe in a second book that has undeniably changed it's beliefs and writings over a 100 times, that is proven. The Bible has never changed and will always be the one and only truth. Simple to me, God knows we're sheep, do you really think He'd try and confuse us by bringing a second book into our lives that fully contradicts the Bible? I pray the real truth comes into your life and your eyes are opened.
mt mormon it is obvious that "anonymous" has neither read/studied the "Bible" nor the Book of Mormon, he/she didn't even bother to tell us which of the dozen currently "christian" approved translations he professes "has never changed", however we would not want to confuse this poor sheep with fact, nor could one hope that mt conservative could free himsef from such ignorance and bigotry. Cast not your pearls before swine....and as you leave this blog clean the dust from your feet at the gate.
You can not deny that the book of mormon contradicts the Bible, and I am sorry but you can not believe in two things at once and then call yourselves Christians. Some very big points, mormons believe that Jesus was just another prophet correct? And that God was once a material creature, and man is progressively becoming a god, and men can achieve godhood. The Bible believes in nothing like that. The Bible says men are sinful and separated from God, and God is uniquely eternal and all powerful. God the Father, the eternal God is Spirit. Jesus said that a spirit does not have flesh and bones. The Bible also says any additions or deletions to the Bible are forbidden. God promised to preserve His word and to suggest that the Bible was mistranslated and corrupted would be to call God a liar, thus eliminating mormon writings, since they stand in direct opposition to the divine revelation that has already been given in the Bible. There are many differences in the religions and between the Bible and the book of mormon, to deny that is nothing less than ignorance. Believing in only the Bible and following its teachings are the only truth.
Mt Christian, Of the Abrahamic religions I know of only two that believe that Christ was just a "prophet". The Muslims and the Jews. Would you be so kind, (for the sake of credibility) to offer one (1) piece of Mormon produced scripture/teaching/musing that instructs, offers, or implies that Jesus was any thing except the Son of God sent to this earth with explicit instructions.
The Bible warns us to be on guard for false prophets and false teachers. Jesus said in Matthew 7:15, “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.” He also said in Matthew 24:11 “And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.” He went to say, “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect” (Matthew 24:24.) How then, are we to recognize false prophets? Deuteronomy 18:22 says, “When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that [is] the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, [but] the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.” We are instructed to be diligent about searching out false teachings. 1 John 4:1 says, “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.”
THE GOD OF MORMONISM
"In spite of the opposition of the sects, in the face of direct charges of blasphemy, the Church proclaims the eternal truth: 'AS MAN IS, GOD ONCE WAS: AS GOD IS, MAN MAY BE." (Apostle James Talmage, The Articles of Faith, p. 430)
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man,.,. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345)
"God himself, the Father of us all, is a glorified, exalted, immortal, resurrected Man! (Apostle Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1979 edition, p. 643)
"... you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you,..." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 346
"If we should take a million of worlds like this and number their particles, we should find that there are more Gods than there are particles of matter in those worlds." (Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, p. 345)
THE GOD OF THE BIBLE
"...the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else." (Deuteronomy 4:39)
"... for I am God, and not man;..." (Hosea 11:9)
"For I am the LORD, I change not;..." (Malachi 3:6)
"Therefore thou art great, O LORD God: for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee...' (II Samuel 7:22)
"For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone." (Psalms 86:10)
"I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me:..." (Isaiah 45:5)
MT Sister.....
Those are pretty glaring examples of contradictions between Mormonism and traditional Christianity.
I will be interested to see the Mormon response to those citations.
Mormonism = man made, ridiculous cult founded by a snake oil salesman.
Glenn Beck = misguided fool with no sense of Christian history or the truth of God. I'm sure he's a good man, but terribly misguided.
INCREDIBLE POST.
I AGREE 100%.
As a Christian myself, I am sick and tired of Mormons telling everyone they are Christians, because they are NOT Christians! They believe all kinds of strange things. If they wanna be Mormons, go ahead be one! But, STOP hijacking the Christian faith! This is offensive to any true Bible-believing Christian. Huckabee should have stuck to his guns and demanded a comprehensive answer to the question, "Do Mormons believe Jesus and Satan were brothers?" WHY??? Because the official website of the Mormon church explicitly makes the sibling connection between Jesus and Lucifer a matter of official Mormon doctrine!
COPY AND PASTE TO WORK
http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp
?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVC
M1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&
sourceId=4a10ef960417b010VgnVCM
1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1
Good job. May the good Lord Jesus bless you forever.
What is "Christian faith"? What religion do any of you claim? Catholic, Protestant, Baptist, Lutheran,...?
Remember, "Christianity" is not a religion, but a belief system. It makes me wonder why people answer "Christian" when asked, "What religion are you?" When I ask someone what religion they are and they answer "Christian" it's like answering "NFL" if I ask what team you play on.
Simply put, not claiming a religion is pretty easy right? In the end, if you do claim one, I guarantee Mormons (if they so chose to) would show you how "your" religion is wrong, what doctrines "your" religion has changed over the years, and how many time "your" religion has revised the Bible. But no, just saying "I'm Christian" takes all of that blame away. At least Mormons stand up to something and don't coward behind a general belief that you probably don't even adhere because you don't know what "being a Christian" would truly entail.
Get it straight people, Christianity is a belief system based on the teachings of Christ. The sects (religions) in this world all differ from one to another...changing the bible the way they sit fit. Remember there are now well over 100 "translations" of the bible...all tweaked so that it fits the small details of the particular "Christian Religion." (ie-Catholic Bible, Roman-Catholic Bible, Protestant Bible, King James Version 1, 2, 3, and now the "New" King James Bible...I could go on and on)
So I ask you all this...which one is right? If there are so many different "versions"...which one is right? You point fingers at the "Mormons," for what they call "translating," what I call tweaking the bible...but you do not point fingers at other "Christian" faiths. Are you really that ignorant to think that the bible was not changed before Mormonism came along? Just go to Barnes and Nobles right now, pick up one bible and then pick up another one with a different cover...just start in the New Testament and you will begin to see the differences between the two. Which one do you have on your nightstand? Why is that the "true" Bible? You people make me sick...at least the Mormons can give a reason why they believe their version is true. What do you have for a reason..."Uhh...well, mine was given to me by...Uhh...I don't know why I "think" my "version" is true...I just know it is." Wow...real convincing.
So if I have this right, you people are mad because "Mormons" changed the Bible...? That's just ridiculous. Do your history. Next.
Two, you are mad because Mormons believe they can become Gods. You're right this is a touchy one. Remember, they do not believe they can become "God". They are not trying to replace him. Their belief is not too weird if you think of it as a Father and Son relationship. How many fathers out there want their son to be better than him? Hopefully every single one. When you look at it that way, would it be out of the ordinary for God to want his children (us) to be "like unto him." It seems logical to me.
Three, you are mad at Mormons for thinking God was once flesh and bone. Again, very touchy and weird when you first think about it. Then remember the resurrection...? Most "Christian" faiths believe that Jesus' spirit re-entered his body and resurrected into a perfect body (except for his wounds to prove he was the Savior)...both of spirit and flesh. Are you here to tell me that Jesus is not God-like, or God himself. He is of flesh and spirit and was a man whether you like it or not, sure he was the direct son of God, but he still possessed feeling, sensations, blood, sweat, fatigue...he was in fact a man who walked on Earth. Period. So, was not Jesus and the Father one? Just read John, the first chapter, for crying out loud. Read verse one and then verse 14. If that's not enough read John 10:30, how about John chapter 14 "He that has seen me has seen the Father" ??? Wow...I've only gotten through John and have proved that a God (Jesus) was a man. This is a "Christian" belief and you did not even realize it! In the end, knowing these things then why is it totally unfathomable to think God could not be flesh and spirit? And why would that offend you anyway?
Four, you "say" Mormons believe Jesus was just than another Apostle. Wait a sec...you can question people's beliefs, fine...not big deal...but you can't LIE about people's beliefs and lead people to think you are telling the truth. There is no Mormon doctrine that says they think Jesus is non other than the Savior of the World and Son of God. No Mormon in their right mind would believe that Jesus is just another Apostle. I might not agree with everything the Mormons do, but there's no reason to beat them over the head with lies and false statements.
So where did this all begin? Christianity right? So reading all of this...what makes you more "Christian" than Mormons? Why are you so much better of a "Christian" than Mormons? Why can't Mormons be Christian too? They believe in Christ, believe he is the savior, their entire religion is based on what they believe and can contend (even with your "version" of a bible) that their religion is based on His teachings. They are good people who strive to do what is right, they serve and are willing to "love they neighbor"...what more do you want?
Maybe you should worry about the things that matter in this life (being kind, accepting, truthful, brave, honorable, showing love, etc..."The REAL Christian Values" and quit fighting about differences in your belief systems while claiming if one group believes something a bit different than your "take" on Christianity than that group in not Christian.
Who are you to judge who is Christian and who isn't? Who are you to point fingers without standing on an actual "Religion" Platform while hiding behind the word "Christian"? What makes you tick to think you can belittle a group of people who have done so much good in this world, and you still feel you can disregard them because of certain differences you have? It's you type of people who start wars and are the beginning of hate crimes. You type of people who "claim" they know something but truly are only fighting with hearse and other people's beliefs while claiming to be some sort of expert in a field.
How many "Mormon" based websites can you find that "hate," "belittle", or claim false "Christianity" to other religions can you find on the web? Not very many. Why? Because they are more focused on the "good" things in life...the "Christian" things in life. There sure is a lot of persecution going their way while they sit back and focus on their own religion, doing everything they can not to point fingers back and put you down, belittle, or make false accusations towards you. How does that feel? Beating up on someone that doesn't fight back? Real "Christian" buddy!
I've observed Mormons for quite some time and the more and more I see these types of ridiculous sites who falsely accuse and are "offended" by their differences, the more and more I believe Mormons are more "Christian" than anyone else...and definitely more "Christian" than those who sit at their computer and JUDGE a religion on false pretences and differences that lead to nothing.
Thank you.
PS- Before you retaliate, I suggest you do your homework. Don't give me a "History Lesson" on Mormon Prophets or other members who have done bad things. Be smart, because for every bad thing you "believe" a Mormon did, I'll find 10 bad things people did from your "Christian" faith. For every time your "believe" Mormons changed their doctrine, I'll find a time where your faith changed their doctrine. Just be smart, not judgmental.
Once again, I don't agree with everything they do. But most things they do are great. What I can't stand are people who "think" they are able to claim such defying statement like "Mormons are not Christian". This type of statement, is uneducated and just plain idiotic.
Thursday, April 10, 2008
The Truth will make us free
Up front and for the record:
1.) English is not my native language
2.) I am Autistic (very black and white person)
3.) Finding the truth is my ultimate goal
4.) I am a Mormon
5.) I am truly fascinated by the fact that many people like Glenn Beck, but do not understand why he is a Mormon
After reading several blog entries like http://www.truthsoup.com/glenn_beck.html I came to marvel at the discrepancy of logical decent by first claiming [and I quote]
"On top of that, he can be downright hysterical. Glenn Beck is currently heard on 125 stations.
When he isn't presenting a monologue … he takes calls from "sick freaks" or he lampoons our sacred cows. It is truly funny stuff much of the time ... He is also not afraid to publish Hate Mail on his site. …
While the liberal media was enamored with the anti-war protests, Glenn was out there staging pro-America rallies …. His Rally for America on May 27th in West Virginia attracted THOUSANDS of patriotic Americans in a celebration of freedom and liberty. Of course, NewYorkTimesCNNABSCBSNBCblahblahblah didn't want to report on this event. That's ok; it’s rewarding enough just knowing that the Right is right. :-) [end of quote]"
And then just in the next paragraph, the blogger is puzzled how someone [and I quote] "With his ongoing pursuit of the truth, he has somehow stumbled into Mormonism. Anyone who has researched The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints knows it is a cult loosely based on traditional Christianity, but so far off on most key doctrinal issues as to not be related to Biblical Christianity at all. [end of quote]".
The blogger is yet open and fair enough to state "Anyway, that is not enough of a reason for me to tune his out. He makes me think and laugh, often at the same time.".
After researching the blogosphere some more, I ran into myriads of bloggers trying to discredit Mormonism as occult and non Christian.
Rather than adding my own five cents worth, I will quote from Elder Jeffrey R. Holland of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles from his General Conference address in April of 2008.
What I truly appreciate as a truth seeker (as well as Glenn Beck probably does) is the openess of Mormons to discuss as much as possible emotion free the doctrines of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, our Saviour:
"… In general conference last October, I said there were two principal reasons The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is accused, erroneously, of not being Christian. At that time I addressed one of those doctrinal issues—our scripturally based view of the Godhead. Today I would like to address the other major doctrine which characterizes our faith but which causes concern to some, namely the bold assertion that God continues to speak His word and reveal His truth, revelations which mandate an open canon of scripture.
Some Christians, in large measure because of their genuine love for the Bible, have declared that there can be no more authorized scripture beyond the Bible. In thus pronouncing the canon of revelation closed, our friends in some other faiths shut the door on divine expression that we in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints hold dear: the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants, the Pearl of Great Price, and the ongoing guidance received by God’s anointed prophets and apostles. Imputing no ill will to those who take such a position, nevertheless we respectfully but resolutely reject such an unscriptural characterization of true Christianity.
One of the arguments often used in any defense of a closed canon is the New Testament passage recorded in Revelation 22:18: “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of . . . this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.” However, there is now overwhelming consensus among virtually all biblical scholars that this verse applies only to the book of Revelation, not the whole Bible. Those scholars of our day acknowledge a number of New Testament “books” that were almost certainly written after John’s revelation on the Isle of Patmos was received. Included in this category are at least the books of Jude, the three Epistles of John, and probably the entire Gospel of John itself.1 Perhaps there are even more than these.
But there is a simpler answer as to why that passage in the final book of the current New Testament cannot apply to the whole Bible. That is because the whole Bible as we know it—one collection of texts bound in a single volume—did not exist when that verse was written. For centuries after John produced his writing, the individual books of the New Testament were in circulation singly or perhaps in combinations with a few other texts but almost never as a complete collection. Of the entire corpus of 5,366 known Greek New Testament manuscripts, only 35 contain the whole New Testament as we now know it, and 34 of those were compiled after A.D. 1000.2
The fact of the matter is that virtually every prophet of the Old and New Testament has added scripture to that received by his predecessors. If the Old Testament words of Moses were sufficient, as some could have mistakenly thought them to be,3 then why, for example, the subsequent prophecies of Isaiah or of Jeremiah, who follows him? To say nothing of Ezekiel and Daniel, of Joel, Amos, and all the rest. If one revelation to one prophet in one moment of time is sufficient for all time, what justifies these many others? What justifies them was made clear by Jehovah Himself when He said to Moses, “My works are without end, and . . . my words . . . never cease.”4
One Protestant scholar has inquired tellingly into the erroneous doctrine of a closed canon. He writes: “On what biblical or historical grounds has the inspiration of God been limited to the written documents that the church now calls its Bible? . . . If the Spirit inspired only the written documents of the first century, does that mean that the same Spirit does not speak today in the church about matters that are of significant concern?”5 We humbly ask those same questions.
Continuing revelation does not demean or discredit existing revelation. The Old Testament does not lose its value in our eyes when we are introduced to the New Testament, and the New Testament is only enhanced when we read the Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ. In considering the additional scripture accepted by Latter-day Saints, we might ask: Were those early Christians who for decades had access only to the primitive Gospel of Mark (generally considered the first of the New Testament Gospels to be written)—were they offended to receive the more detailed accounts set forth later by Matthew and Luke, to say nothing of the unprecedented passages and revelatory emphasis offered later yet by John? Surely they must have rejoiced that ever more convincing evidence of the divinity of Christ kept coming. And so do we rejoice.
Please do not misunderstand. We love and revere the Bible, as Elder M. Russell Ballard taught so clearly from this pulpit just one year ago.6 The Bible is the word of God. It is always identified first in our canon, our “standard works.” Indeed, it was a divinely ordained encounter with the fifth verse of the first chapter of the book of James that led Joseph Smith to his vision of the Father and the Son, which gave birth to the Restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ in our time. But even then, Joseph knew the Bible alone could not be the answer to all of the religious questions he and others like him had. As he said in his own words, the ministers of his community were contending—sometimes angrily—over their doctrines. “Priest [was] contending against priest, and convert [was contending] against convert . . . in a strife of words and a contest about opinions,” he said. About the only thing these contending religions had in common was, ironically, a belief in the Bible, but, as Joseph wrote, “the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question [regarding which church was true] by an appeal to the Bible.”7 Clearly the Bible, so frequently described at that time as “common ground,” was nothing of the kind—unfortunately it was a battleground.
Thus one of the great purposes of continuing revelation through living prophets is to declare to the world through additional witnesses that the Bible is true. “This is written,” an ancient prophet said, speaking of the Book of Mormon, “for the intent that ye may believe that,” speaking of the Bible.8 In one of the earliest revelations received by Joseph Smith, the Lord said, “Behold, I do not bring [the Book of Mormon forth] to destroy [the Bible] but to build it up.”9
One other point needs to be made. Since it is clear there were Christians long before there was a New Testament or even an accumulation of the sayings of Jesus, it cannot therefore be maintained that the Bible is what makes one a Christian. In the words of esteemed New Testament scholar N. T. Wright, “The risen Jesus, at the end of Matthew’s Gospel, does not say, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth is given to the books you are all going to write,’ but ‘All authority in heaven and on earth is given to me.’ “10 In other words, “Scripture itself points . . . away from itself and to the fact that final and true authority belongs to God himself.”11 So the scriptures are not the ultimate source of knowledge for Latter-day Saints. They are manifestations of the ultimate source. The ultimate source of knowledge and authority for a Latter-day Saint is the living God. The communication of those gifts comes from God as living, vibrant, divine revelation.12
This doctrine lies at the very heart of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and our message to the world. It dramatizes the significance of a solemn assembly yesterday, in which we sustained Thomas S. Monson as a prophet, a seer, and a revelator. We believe in a God who is engaged in our lives, who is not silent, not absent, nor, as Elijah said of the god of the priests of Baal, is He “[on] a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be [awakened].”13 In this Church, even our young Primary children recite, “We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.”14
In declaring new scripture and continuing revelation, we pray we will never be arrogant or insensitive. But after a sacred vision in a now sacred grove answered in the affirmative the question “Does God exist?” what Joseph Smith and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints force us to face is the next interrogative, which necessarily follows: “Does He speak?” We bring the good news that He does and that He has. With a love and affection born of our Christianity, we invite all to inquire into the wonder of what God has said since biblical times and is saying even now.
In a sense Joseph Smith and his prophetic successors in this Church answer the challenge Ralph Waldo Emerson put to the students of the Harvard Divinity School 170 years ago this coming summer. To that group of the Protestant best and brightest, the great sage of Concord pled that they teach “that God is, not was; that He speaketh, not spake.”15
I testify that the heavens are open. I testify that Joseph Smith was and is a prophet, that the Book of Mormon is truly another testament of Jesus Christ, that Thomas S. Monson is God’s prophet, a modern apostle with the keys of the kingdom in his hands, a man upon whom I personally have seen the mantle fall. I testify that the presence of such authorized, prophetic voices and ongoing canonized revelations have been at the heart of the Christian message whenever the authorized ministry of Christ has been on the earth. I testify that such a ministry is on the earth again, and it is found in this, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
In our heartfelt devotion to Jesus of Nazareth as the very Son of God, the Savior of the world, we invite all to examine what we have received of Him, to join with us, drinking deeply at the “well of water springing up into everlasting life,”16 these constantly flowing reminders that God lives, that He loves us, and that He speaks. I express the deepest personal thanks that His works never end and His “words . . . never cease.” I bear witness of such divine loving attention and the recording of it, in the sacred name of Jesus Christ, amen.
NOTES1. See Stephen E. Robinson, Are Mormons Christians? (1991), 46. The issue of canon is discussed on pages 45–56.2. See Bruce M. Metzger, Manuscripts of the Greek Bible: An Introduction to Greek Paleography (1981), 54–55; see also Are Mormons Christians? 46.3. See Deuteronomy 4:2, for example.4. Moses 1:4.5. Lee M. McDonald, The Formation of the Christian Biblical Canon, rev. ed. (1995), 255–56.6. See “The Miracle of the Holy Bible,” Liahona and Ensign, May 2007, 80–82.7. Joseph Smith—History 1:6, 12.8. Mormon 7:9; emphasis added.9. D&C 10:52; see also D&C 20:11.10. N. T. Wright, The Last Word: Beyond the Bible Wars to a New Understanding of the Authority of Scripture (2005), xi.11. Wright, The Last Word, 24.12. For a full essay on this subject, see Dallin H. Oaks, “Scripture Reading and Revelation,” Ensign, Jan. 1995, 6–9.13. 1 Kings 18:27.14. Articles of Faith 1:9.15. “An Address,” The Complete Writings of Ralph Waldo Emerson (1929), 45.16. John 4:14. "
Enjoy!
in response to brad, you have not a clue what you are talking about!translating what the bible says differently from others is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FROM REWRITING THE BIBLE!other faiths that claim christianity do not change the bible or attempt to change it over 100 times(which most mormons would not discuss, but people of other religions know that this is true)i respect glenn beck for standing for what he believes in, be it his religion as well as conservitism, even though i am baptist.i hope and pray that glenn will see the truth that faith in God, not works(or whatever mormons believe in),is the way to heaven.romans 2:8-9 says,"for by grace ye are saved, through faith, ....and not of works."
Anonymous...who are you "claiming" that "rewrote the bible"??
It's evident that you need a history lesson about the bible.
...and by the way, Romans 2:8-9 does not talk about grace and works...you are thinking of Ephesians :)
Answer this...why is there commandments if everyone is saved by grace? Is not obeying the commandments a "work" unto the Lord showing your faith in Him? So why would God have laws if everyone is saved by grace?
You need to understand the meaning of "grace" before using it as an absolute. Of course we need God's grace and no Mormon would dispute otherwise. Everyone needs the atonement of Jesus Christ. Everyone will need and does need grace...no dispute there.
The difference is that Mormons do not believe they can go about their life not obeying commandments (aka "works"). They believe in doing the things that they believe God wants them to do. Baptism, Holy Ghost, being chaste, honest, serving others etc, etc...these are "works" to Mormons. What is wrong with them thinking that? Why are people offended by a religion setting their standards high? Are you insecure with your own faith and the "works" that maybe you should be doing? Does it make you uncomfortable to think you might actualy have to put a little effort into your life? It's pretty easy to think, "who cares...I'm going to be saved by grace"...isn't it? Then explain this--why are there such extreme consequences in the Bible for those who do not obey the commandments? Remember "obeying the commandments" is "works". That's the principle and that's what Mormons believe. So if "works" do not matter and everyone is saved then why the trouble? Why do so many get into trouble when they break the laws of God?
In the end, to actually think you do not need to put in some effort to be saved is ubsurd. Of course you need to do something, some type of "work", to be saved. How meaningless would this life be otherwise?
Mormons do not say their "works" save them. Get your facts straight. Mormons, 100%, believe they are only saved through the atonement of Christ (grace). Basically everything the BIBLE tells you.
Oh yeah...before I forget, here's what Romans 2:8-9 really says (fitting for you, if you ask me:) )
Romans 2:8-9
8 But unto them that are acontentious, and do not bobey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, cindignation and wrath,
9 aTribulation and banguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the cGentile;
Based on wat this article has said i belive it is contradicts itself kind of. mormons still belive jesus was truly divine,more then just a prophet as the muslims see him. I think that gets them chirstian status.given that they are another denomination. they may not fit the normal protestant base though.
I disagree, Mormons belive in Christ as there savior they are threfore Christian by the accepted defintion of Christian.
in a nut shell.. ""“Mormon” is a nickname for members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.They believe in, hope in, rejoice in, and testify of Jesus Christ as the Savior of the World. "" and honetly that is really all that matters.
I'll head back to my Heathen corner of the internet now.
Ok, in a nutshell: mormons are wonderful, good, exemplary people. What they are not, are Christians. I don't say this to be hurtful, it's just the obvious truth. Gordon B. Hinckley said it himself! Mormons believe in the Jesus Christ "presented" to Joseph Smith, not the Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible. There my friend's, is a HUGE difference. The Book of Mormon and the Bible are in no way, shape, or form comparable. I understand that Mormons use the Bible, but only when it doesn't conflict with the Book of Mormon or any other mormon publication...and oh there are so many conflicting elements!!! Joseph Smith is a false prophet...not of just one false prophecy, but many...too many to count. According to the bible, all it takes is one false prophecy to discredit a false prophet (Deuteronomy 18:21). I asked a mormon friend once how he knew he was going to heaven...he rippled off all kinds of criteria (he's basically trying to achieve perfection). The gospel is very simple: believing that God sent his son Jesus to die on the cross and to accept him into your life and to follow him for the rest of your life...THAT'S IT!! Every human born into this world, are sinners and deserve to go to Hell. There is not a single thing anyone can do to change that, (except accepting Jesus Christ as their personal savior). It is completely arrogant to think that we as humans could remotely do anything in our own strength to spend eternity with Jesus. I daily pray for the mormon people, that they may come to know the one and only true savior, the real Jesus Christ! God Bless
Only those who have met the Lord, in seeing their sinfulness are saved. This is being born again by the Spirit of God. Then the Spirit of God comes into our hearts and we can read the bible and see the truth. Mormons have not been born again, so they have/are being mislead by Satan into another so-called "word of God". An Angel came and deceived Joseph Smith. HE ignored the Warnings of Galations Chap. 1 about an Angel bringing another Gospel.... The True Gospel is that Jesus is Eternal God, became man to die as the God/Man for our sin debt. A debt He didn't owe, that we owed, but never could pay. He paid the sin debt for all the world's sins. He said: It is finished, paid in full right before He died on the cross. If you truly believe He did this, that you are a hell bound sinner and lost without His work on the cross and that You need His life and Him to be your Lord, You will be saved. If, you stay believing. The "believe" in the bible is a continuous activity, not a momentary mental assent. We LIve in Him, to prove we are in Him. Just saying the sinner's prayer will not save anyone. You have to surrender your heart and life into God's Heart by truly dying to your own life and letting His Life be your life! the book of John talks all about this. Once saved, truly, God will confirm His Word, the bible to you and you will need no other Book!!
We are saved by His Grace, received!! Awesome, but He only gives Grace to the Humble. Pray for Mormons to be humbled, because they are actually very prideful people who place man's views and these other books above the true Word of God. But all of us who are truly born again, had to be humbled and had to see our sinfulness too. We are no better than them. Just better off for hearing the call of God, and responding appropriately to the Gospel in surrendering our hearts to Jesus. Let us tell Mormons and others the Gospel and that God only accepts the work of His Son Jesus to bring us in. this is a Great thing, for if we are going to have to save ourselves, we all would be lost. God Bless, Dave
This discussion makes me want to cry. To attempt to deny another person the right to demonstrate their love for and devotion to Jesus Christ by taking on his name is cruel and unchristian.
No Amy, what makes me cry is that there is only 1 Jesus, the true Son of the true God, and people are out there who are following a false God. Please pray and ask God to show the truth and give you guidance as to what is the truth, not what you want to believe. It can mean an eternity in Heaven with the true God of the bible or an eternity in Hell, and yes it really does exist (the bible tells us so)!!
mt mormon the bible says it is the final and inspired word of God and there are no other adendums to it. yet mormons believe the book of mormon is a newer than new testament. an adendum to the bible. call it what you will but with that those FACTS mormons idealology imply the Bible must be flawed. its like somebody saying 105 degrees farenheit in the shade is not hot, but it is to the rest of the world!
also mt mormon, i am a Christian, i have had the mormon classes when i was younger and being snow balled by one of my best friends as a young man. i have never renounced my Christianity and have never held the mormon beliefs, which came to a convicted felon in the woods as a vision. The way to the Father is through the Son, Jesus Christ, the only way to the father. The only one true God. The ONLY creator. Say what you will or 'call in an elder to explain things' a typical tactic practiced by 'missionaries'. They tend to talk in circles to prey on people who are confused and have little or no faith.
by the way unless you read greek you can't get a real translation. of course there are different versions which are personalities if you will. different people put different stresses on versions of greek words. most versions are pretty similar in content stating there is only one son and one father and a holy spirit and the trinity. the bible says you are saved by grace alone not the laying on of hands. the bible says nothing about south american disciples or the creation of a separate universe for others to become the divine creator or leader. mormons go to missionary school in which to learn how to dish out just enough to keep people wanting or wondering until they are neck deep. mormons believe that prophecy changes and God continues to reveal more as time goes on. the reason for this is to explain how their doctrine changes when the heirarchy in the church changes. bless their hearts and may God have mercy but they do not have it the way the Bible states it. you need only to look as far as Revalation when the Bible says this is it summing it up there is no other legitimate testament(book of mormon)
Fascinating discussion. Which leaves me so curious that I hope somebody will answer my question. If Mormons are so sinful for accepting additional books of what they call scripture, then why do Christians accept, purchase and teach to their children extra-biblical stories which are NOT from the Bible, and/or interpretations of Bible stories which are NOT biblical, NOT from a prophet and NOT doctrine directly from the mouth of Jesus Christ? Christian bookstores love, love, LOVE you for it, but these things are NOT biblical! Here are just a few examples:
1. The Book of Jabez
2. stupid "Christmas stories" like "The Littlest Angel", "The Little Drummer Boy", "The Three Trees" which have nothing to do with Christmas but are taught in Sunday Schools and have become part of Christian tradition.
3. The writings of Max Lucado (He is no prophet. "Because I Love You" is a pre-mortal life story. Mormons are not the only sinners on imaginations of this one. At least their version is more positive)
4. Veggie Tales. What the ---?-- is that??? Do you honestly think brushing over the issue of David's adultery with rubber duckies, and Jonah's submission to God with such a stupid profit-motivated movie actually teaches BIBLICAL principle, in purity and truth?
5. Andrew Lloyd Webber musicals. I see church after church putting on "Joseph and the Technicolor Dreamcoat". It is one of the most faith-demoting musicals out there, right along with the horrendous, false, horrible "Jesus Christ Superstar".
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, Christians.
To 'anonymous':
I'd like to believe that you are trying to understand 'Mormons', but your reasoning falls short and your attacks are unfounded on many levels. It is good to seek the truth and to do that re: Mormonism requires that you call the Missionaries in your area and get the scoop FROM a Mormom ABOUT a Mormon. Not a collection of half truths and total falsehoods that allow misinterpretation and and a lot of mis understanding. As one writer said 'The real name of the 'Mormon' Church is The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter Day Saints'. They take upon them the name of Christ, they revere Him and follow his teachings. So, that makes them???? 'Jesusians' or
sub'Christians'. I would have to understand your understanding of the word 'Christian' to be able to comment further. My understanding is that it denotes a follower of Christ. Hmmm.
I would suggest your conclusions are in error. 2+2=4, not 6. A little more study might be helpful for you.
Have the courage of your conviction to sign your name, please.
Nomers
Mormon's do not preach the teachings of Jesus Christ....only the "teachings" of Joseph Smith.
For me, I will chose the former.NEVER the latter.
i haven't seen anyone mention that Jesus as revealed in the Bible is not the same Jesus Mormons are following. I'm not sure how many total comments there are, I believe I read most, but didn't see anything about Jesus being literally a born spirit baby unto God by his wife and Jesus and Satan are brothers. Actually, I have not researched this and am more curious what discussion this will make, but I think then since everyone's a spirit baby that we are thus all brothers of Jesus and Lucifer and therefore a reason why Mormons believe we can be gods since Jesus is god...their definition of god now different than God's identity he revealed in his word.
Jesus was confronted about marriage in heaven and what about the man that has been married to many wives? Jesus' response is that none of those marriages exist in heaven yet Mormons continue the marriage in heaven, the husbands resurrecting the wives by calling their secret name the wife had revealed to him was her name that she had received when they made their convenant. Another new revelation that contradicts Christ's teaching. I guess he changed his mind?
We have many former Mormons at our church that went through many of the cultish secret ("sacred") rituals and ceremonies and covenants. Find one in your church or research it from a credible person on the internet. Especially what the rooms look like and how they are constructed and the orientation in which everyone stands and their gestures and things they recite. Almost ALL of their unbiblical doings can be traced back to their definitions of God's identity and words all us Christians use that are rooted on fundamental Christian doctrine that any Bible believing church teaches. Their words do not support the same doctrine that Christ followers know the words to mean. So be incredibly careful and ALWAYS go back to presuppositions when trying to lead a Mormon to the Truth.
Is your interpretation of the Bible the end all and do all? Which version? Are you aware of where the Bible cane from? Have you ever heard of the Council of Nicaea and what the central issue of the first Council was? Do you not believe that we can inherit all that the Father has as joint heirs with Christ? Didn't you know that "Mormon" is a slang name given to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints by early day detractors of the faith? Members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, (Mormons) don't require you to believe what they believe! Why can't you leave them alone, rather than trying to demonize them? Their claim to being Christian is based on their belief that Jesus is the Son of God, the Savior of the world through his vicarious sacrifice to pay for the sins of the world. That is good enough for me! They are Christians!!!
I am very disturbed by reading this. Are you all insane? Delusional or schizophrenic? Do you know the first thing about your own religion? How can someone say the Bible has never been edited? Not to mention it was written over a hundred years after Jesus' death and by people who never knew him. Christianity plagarized pagan doctrine to attract converts (christmas, Jesus was not born December 25th He was not born in December at all, in fact it was in the summer) The Bible has also been edited and revisited a number of times particularly in the Church's begginings where official Church doctrine was decided as well as which books would be included in the Bible. For example, there was an early sect of Christianity called Arians who did not consider Jesus to be divine. Jesus never refered to himself as the Son of God, it was written by apostoles WHO DID NOT EVEN KNOW HIM and wrote the story of his life after it had been sensationalized by the passage of decades. Interesting fact: Only two of the Gospels mentions Jesus' birth by a Virgin. I dont know about you but if I was writting Jesus' biography I probably wouldnt have forgottent o mention that particular detail. Actually, Mary is known as a Virgin because the Aramaic word for Virgin and young woman are very similar and it was only a mis translation of early christian texts into greek and roman. Jesus as the son of god was only established by a vote in the third century at the council of nicea. Basically youre all fucking crazy people. Adults shouldnt have imaginary friends. Get yourselfs to a mental institution. What the fuck is wrong with you. Grow up and see the truth: your life is short and meaningless and there is no God who loves you no matter what. God does not exist and Christianity is tainted by the blood of the centuries. The Catholic Church has profulgated unimaginable pain and suffering. Just because it "makes you feel better" does not mean it is TRUE!!! But this is all pointless, go on living your delusional existence. Crazy people .. Better yet, go listen to Glenn Beck
Much of what you wrote in your post of the 13 March is correct, but nothing contained in your post necessarily would lead one to the conclusion that Jesus is not the Son of a living God. It is obvious that you don't beleive it, but why does the belief in God and Christ of others make you foam at the mouth? If you respond to this post, I would much appreciate it if you would curb your anger enough that you don't feel compelled to spout such vulgarities as was contained in your post of the 13th. And by the way, I am taking your advise. I will listen to Glenn's reasoned and articulate discourse at my every opportunity.
In a nice talk given by Elder Jeffrey R. Holland, an Apostle of the Lord and a leader of the Mormon church he addresses many of these questions. Here's a link to his talk on the subject.
http://lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,23-1-851-30,00.html#15
As for the claims that the Book of Mormon conflicts with the Bible: Prove it. Seriously, stop making vague accusations and let's see where some verses from the Book of Mormon disagree with the Bible. The Bible, not what various Christians believe the Bible is saying, but what it actually says. And if the Book of Mormon is false shouldn't there be hundreds of examples of this? The book is over 500 pages long, shouldn't there be thousands of examples? There's not. People find a verse here or a verse there that they think disagrees, but on further study we see that it doesn't.
As for the prophet, Joseph Smith. During his lifetime he was falsely accused and imprisoned dozens of times. He was NEVER convicted of a single crime. The people of his time couldn't prove he was false or a con man or anything of that nature so they finally got a mob together and shot him down in cold blood out of frustration. But hey, the pharisees accused our Savior of healing people by the power of the devil. Logic and proof has never stopped people from attacking the Church, it's just stopped them from suceeding.
Like Glenn beck, I am a convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, nick named by detractors of the faith as "Mormons" after a prophet named in the "Book of Mormon". I was raised as a Southern Baptist by a father who had been a lay Baptist minister. Before his death he converted to the faith as did my mother and two brothers.
My conversion came as I was entering Law School at Louisiana State University in 1969. At that time I referred to myself as a protesting Protestant, intending to be redundant. I was not a Jew, nor was I a Catholic, and within the differing sects of the Protestant faith, there was very little in the way of doctrine to persuade me to any of them. It wasn't until a couple of young LDS Missionaries persisted in teaching me by reasoned discussion, and after much resistance on my part, that the Spirit struck me, and I slid of the edge of my couch to my knees sobbing, having had the Holy Spirit testify to my soul that what they had been telling me was true. I can never deny that pure knowledge. I know it is true.
When I was a student at Verdun High School in France, I had a roommate that was raised as a Mormon. We would often engage in late night night discussions as we lay awake in our beds, which discussions would often turn to faith. I came away from that experience with some very strange misconceptions about the LDS faith. It seems comical to me now, wondering how I could possibly have misconstrued some of the doctrine Gordon told me about. As an Attorney however I now realize the imperfections of language in conveying thoughts and ideas.
In reading posts on this page, it is obvious to me that there is a great amount of misunderstanding and misconception both of what the Bible teaches as well as what the Book of Mormon teaches. There is no question but that how some interpret the Bible is not congruent with the doctrines of the LDS Church, or for that matter, with the doctrines of other Protestant churches.In fact, as a Baptist, I argued with my minister on points of doctrine where I would ultimately be told "You just have to have faith"! My retort was "why should I have faith in what you tell me as opposed to what the Baptist minister at such and such church tells me."
Just be kind. Truth light and knowledge comes with much study, prayer, and sometime a little age helps. While Truth is not relative, our perception of truth does change as we we grow in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Yes I am a Christian, and have been my whole life, and conversion to the LDS Church has only increased my faith that he is my savior and my redeemer, that only through his redeeming sacrifice can we all be "One ... and joint heirs with Christ and inherit all that the Father has". Not by our works, but by FAITH. Works are but a reflection of our faith. A declaration of faith without our good works is not true faith, and is dead.
I belong to the "Baptist" church. I am a "Christian", only because of forgiveness of my sins. Also, all the "different" Bibles are one and the same! The message is the same in ALL Bibles and everyone knows the NAME that can't be typed on line with the threat of messages being "pulled" by the blog author. Glenn is a well meaning person but I too hope he will see the true "light"!!!
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